SON OF ABRAHAM

Silence is complicity

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Member Since: 3/2010 Last Seen: 5/19/2012

Netanyahu's Speech to Congress Speech Shows America Will Buy Anything

Seeded on Tue May 24, 2011 10:24 PM EDT

world-news, israel, congress, middle-east, america, palestine, netanyahu, jordan-river, gideon-levy

Seeded by Son of Abraham

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Gideon Levy wrote: It was an address with no destination, filled with lies on top of lies and illusions heaped on illusions. Only rarely is a foreign head of state invited to speak before Congress. It's unlikely that any other has attempted to sell them such a pile of propaganda and prevarication, such hypocrisy and sanctimony as Benjamin Netanyahu did yesterday.

The fact that the Congress rose to its feet multiple times to applaud him says more about the ignorance of its members than the quality of their guest's speech. An Israeli presence on the Jordan River - cheering. Jerusalem must remain the united capital of Israel - applause. Did American's elected representatives know that they were cheering for the death of possibility? If America loved it, we're in big trouble.

CoH, please

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Public Discussion (105)

Son of Abraham

The fact that the only truth spoken in the Capitol was that of a former Israeli shouting "equal rights for Palestinians" is a badge of honor for us and a mark of shame for America. Netanyahu's "speech of his life" was the speech of the death of peace.

23 votes

#1 - Tue May 24, 2011 10:27 PM EDT

Side Winder V

And members of the Congress were standing and clapping, like pupils praising their conceited teacher. That was embarrassing and shameful to be American for the conduct of those "representatives". That was a reminder to the rubber stamp parliaments of the despotic regimes in Egypt or Syria. How could they accept that man's humiliation to our President? How could they accept that man's contempt and flagrant violation to the International Law and International Conventions? How does that look in the eyes of the Arab Spring young generations? This is America, the leader of the free world, the defender of the oppressed and values of freedom and justice and democracy in the world; pity America with those lawmakers.

27 votes

#1.1 - Tue May 24, 2011 10:47 PM EDT

buttzie

Besides all the fawning, the question should be -What losses is Israel prepared to take? All I heard was what they weren't prepared to loose. Congress's bootlicking did nothing to advance peace in the region. In fact regression is a appropriate term. They simply proved to the Palestinian people and their sympathizers that Palestinian rights are the farthest from United States agenda.

22 votes

#1.2 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:20 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

That was well said buttzie, thanks.

17 votes

#1.3 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:30 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

That comment was powerful Side Winder V, thanks.

16 votes

#1.4 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:33 PM EDT

Adler315

Although the opinion piece below is more than a year old, its message is even more dire, more urgent and more relevant as you read it now, given the warm and cordial reception accorded Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu before Congress this week.

"Imagining an Israeli Strike on Iran" — from an article in the 'Week in Review' section of The New York Times by David E. Sanger, published March 27, 2010:

In 1981, Israel destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak, declaring it could not live with the chance the country would get a nuclear weapons capability. In 2007, it wiped out a North Korean-built reactor in Syria. And the next year, the Israelis secretly asked the Bush administration for the equipment and overflight rights they might need some day to strike Iran's much better-hidden, better-defended nuclear sites.

They were turned down, but the request added urgency to the question: Would Israel take the risk of a strike? And if so, what would follow?

Now that parlor game question has turned into more formal war games simulations. The government’s own simulations are classified, but the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution created its own in December. The results were provocative enough that a summary of them has circulated among top American government and military officials and in many foreign capitals.

For the sake of verisimilitude, former top American policymakers and intelligence officials — some well known — were added to the mix. They played the president and his top advisers; the Israeli prime minister and cabinet; and Iranian leaders. They were granted anonymity to be able to play their roles freely, without fear of blowback. (This reporter was invited as an observer.) A report by Kenneth M. Pollack, who directed the daylong simulation, can be found at the Saban Center’s Web site.

A caution: Simulations compress time and often oversimplify events. Often they underestimate the risk of error — for example, that by using faulty intelligence, leaders can misinterpret a random act as part of a pattern of aggression. In this case, the actions of the American and Israeli teams seemed fairly plausible; the players knew the bureaucracy and politics of both countries well. Predicting Iran’s moves was another matter, since little is known about its decision-making process.

One can be certain that plans for a unilateral preemptive strike against Iran were developed by the Israel Defense Forces and Mossad [the Israeli intelligence agency] long ago and are being refined on a daily basis.

Were this to occur, how much political and diplomatic support would (or should) the United States give a strike of this nature? What kind of shift would there be in American policy toward the Jewish State? In a larger context, would the United States actually be the nation that is forced to pay the piper — and to foot the bill, as it has been doing to an enormous extent, for Israel's security — once the inevitable firestorm of controversy and hatred throughout the Arab world is ignited? Ideas? A possible topic for discussion — or food for thought, at the very least . . . Thank you.

8 votes

#1.5 - Wed May 25, 2011 3:25 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

Adler315,

Thanks for the info, but is it possible to provide the link?

One can be certain that plans for a unilateral preemptive strike against Iran were developed by the Israel Defense Forces and Mossad [the Israeli intelligence agency] long ago and are being refined on a daily basis.

Were this to occur, how much political and diplomatic support would (or should) the United States give a strike of this nature? What kind of shift would there be in American policy toward the Jewish State? In a larger context, would the United States actually be the nation that is forced to pay the piper — and to foot the bill, as it has been doing to an enormous extent, for Israel's security — once the inevitable firestorm of controversy and hatred throughout the Arab world is ignited? Ideas? A possible topic for discussion — or food for thought, at the very least . . . Thank you.

That is very interesting and worth thinking about regarding the cost to the US and consequences, thanks.

12 votes

#1.6 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:03 AM EDT

Hope-Springs

Thank you Son of Abraham for this excellent seed and thank you Gideon Levi for this great article.

That speech and the Congress's shameful reaction should make many Americans voting for the candidate that thinks America first.

11 votes

#1.7 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:24 AM EDT

Hope-Springs

They simply proved to the Palestinian people and their sympathizers that Palestinian rights are the farthest from United States agenda.

That might be the farthest from the US Congress agenda, but it is very near to the US interests and security.

9 votes

#1.8 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:30 AM EDT

Fada

That was a reminder to the rubber stamp parliaments of the despotic regimes in Egypt or Syria

The difference with Parliaments in dectatorial regimes is that Congress is not controlled by home made-despot, Congress of free America is totally controlled by lobby working for the interests of another country , this situation is unprecedential and more shameful than it was in Egypt and still in Syria

10 votes

#1.9 - Wed May 25, 2011 9:18 AM EDT

G-MAN65

The fact that the only truth spoken in the Capitol was that of a former Israeli shouting "equal rights for Palestinians" is a badge of honor for us and a mark of shame for America.

unfortunately this brave Israeli-American has been arrested......

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/05/the-assault-on-netanyahus-heckler-rae-abileah.html

11 votes

#1.10 - Wed May 25, 2011 10:33 AM EDT

buttzie

They simply proved to the Palestinian people and their sympathizers that Palestinian rights are the farthest from United States agenda.

That might be the farthest from the US Congress agenda, but it is very near to the US interests and security.

One would think that secruity and interests would be one and the same as the agenda. It appears not to be the case.

10 votes

#1.11 - Wed May 25, 2011 11:20 AM EDT

shawn-

Ponzi scheme like one NOT see in history. I bet you shave BB's head and find 666. We are fools much worse then the "clueless kids and the Pied Piper" being led to an economic collapse.

Obama had the right instincts about Iraq. When he stated on campaign stump he will take out Osama and the RIGHT snickered well he is right about the expansionist agenda of the Yahooo. BB is NO partner in peace his agenda is systematic theft of every last bit of Palestinian land. BB could care less if US goes bankrupt backing his cunning agenda. He does not give a rip if his atrocities spawn and send terror our way.

11 votes

#1.12 - Wed May 25, 2011 1:04 PM EDT

Side Winder V

One would think that secruity and interests would be one and the same as the agenda. It appears not to be the case.

That's absolutely correct, because guaranteeing funding and support in the election for some is like making a pact with the devil and then loyalty to the financiers overrides allegiance to the voters and the nation’s interests.

Even those who resist the pressure and put their voters and the nation’s interests first are being intimidated and defamed with fabrications and lies and another candidate supported by the lobby would be competing for their seat.

Lobbying for a foreign country

Senator William Fulbright, then chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, conducted hearings on foreign influence-buying in Congress in the 1960s. He later said: "I hadn't realized before the hearings that the Jewish lobby was so powerful. … I didn't know they were subverting the Congress." He also said: "The lobby can just about tell the President what to do when it comes to Israel. Its influence in Congress is pervasive and, I think, profoundly harmful...to us and ultimately to Israel itself."

11 votes

#1.13 - Wed May 25, 2011 1:14 PM EDT

California Militia

i would equate this with the president of mexico addressing congress telling us how our immigration laws should be.

why is any foreign dignitary allowed to address congress? why would congress listen?

2 votes

#1.14 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:17 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks for the link, G-MAN65.

The Assault on Netanyahu's Heckler, Rae Abileah

The fact that the only truth spoken in the Capitol was that of a former Israeli shouting "equal rights for Palestinians" is a badge of honor for us and a mark of shame for America. Netanyahu's "speech of his life" was the speech of the death of peace.

Rae Abileah was later interviewed in hospital after being assaulted and tackled to the ground by AIPAC members:

"I am in great pain, but this is nothing compared to the pain and suffering that Palestinians go through on a regular basis," said Abileah from her hospital bed. "I have been to Gaza and the West Bank, I have seen Palestinians homes bombed and bulldozed, I have talked to mothers whose children have been killed during the invasion of Gaza, I have seen the Jewish-only roads leading to ever-expanding settlements in the West Bank. This kind of colonial occupation cannot continue. As a Jew and a U.S. citizen, I feel obligated to rise up and speak out against stop these crimes being committed in my name and with my tax dollars." Abileah explained that she stands in solidarity with the Palestinian and Israeli activists who are routinely jailed and beaten for speaking out for democracy.

Thank you Rae, my gratitude knows no bounds. You glorify our world.

Heal swiftly, we need you.

10 votes

#1.15 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:30 PM EDT

dcstone01

Looks like we have a hero in the making here. It's got to 'hurt' some groups that a Jew is talking like this......

I hope she has a speedy recovery...and that her words are repeated often and loudly.

10 votes

#1.16 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:00 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Here is more from the brave Rae Abileah:

Why Rae Abileah Says She Disrupted Benjamin Netanyahu's Tuesday Address To Congress

In a real democracy, our representatives would be looking out for our best interests, not the interests of a foreign government, i.e.Israel. I want my government to take an even-handed approach that respects the rights of both Israelis and Palestinians. But in our so-called democracy, special interest lobby groups like AIPAC have enormous power because of their ability to direct campaign contributions.

So we have a very skewed policy that ignores the rights of the Palestinians, sanctions the Israeli violations of international law, sullies the U.S. reputation internationally and gives $3 billion a year of our tax dollars to the Israel military when we need this money here at home. Before we go preaching democracy abroad, we should make our own democracy more responsive to the public good, not the wishes of wealthy lobbyists.

10 votes

#1.17 - Thu May 26, 2011 3:08 AM EDT

Hope-Springs

Well done! The brave Rae Abileah speaks for many young Jews in America who want just peace in Palestine and the Middle East.

8 votes

#1.18 - Thu May 26, 2011 4:58 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

And how dare he speak about freedom of worship in Jerusalem at a time when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been denied that freedom for years. Freedom of worship in Jerusalem is for Palestinians aged 35 and up, sometimes 45 and up; sometimes even 65 isn't old enough. And for the 2 million people of the Gaza Strip, there is no such freedom at all.

21 votes

#2 - Tue May 24, 2011 10:29 PM EDT

Side Winder V

The man who explicitly said he would do his level best to destroy the Oslo Accords suddenly says he's in favor of peace with the Palestinians.

The conniving trickster Netanyahu thought we had forgotten his destruction of the Oslo accords.

16 votes

#3 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:00 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thank you for the link to the video, Side Winder V, in which Benjamin Netanyahu said: America is Easy to Push Around (English Subtitles)

8 votes

#3.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 3:00 PM EDT

Side Winder V

How can Netanyahu praise the peace with Egypt, when it's easy to guess he would have voted against it?

And he was angry why President Jimmy Carter, allowed for Egypt to get the Sinai back.

14 votes

#4 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:06 PM EDT

TOMMS

I wonder why there are no poll showing where Americans stand on the $$$$ we given Israel, the decisions Isreal's making regardless of our stand or even if we agree with members of congress. we all know why congres support AIPAC... can someone tell Chuck Todd to get on it and show us the results

15 votes

#5 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:16 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

That is good point TOMMS, thanks.

14 votes

#5.1 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:43 PM EDT

RAY FRIEDMAN

Don't forget the dollars to all the Arab countries and the cost of the wars, be fair in the facts and to add what has been given in return.

5 votes

#5.2 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:43 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

RAY FRIEDMAN,

Can you provide details? Thanks.

10 votes

#5.3 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:48 PM EDT

Side Winder V

RAY FRIEDMAN,

Don't forget the dollars to all the Arab countries and the cost of the wars, be fair in the facts and to add what has been given in return.

Do you have details of that, just for fairness sake?

8 votes

#5.4 - Wed May 25, 2011 7:36 AM EDT

RAY FRIEDMAN

I know and will resaearch that public records on the budget and foriegn aid are available for more precise numbers on an annual basis.

1 vote

#5.5 - Thu May 26, 2011 8:13 AM EDT

Pallas Athene

2 votes

#6 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:31 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Pallas Athene,

There was something you said, but then it has gone!?

2 votes

#6.1 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:45 PM EDT

RAY FRIEDMAN

Sieze the moment, show the world that it is peace and co existence you pursue, prosperity for a better life not by the sword but by mutual co operation of people to build solid economic and educational structures, medical institutions and not to build aresenals of weapons and teach intolerance.Denounce violence and hatred and back it by explicit actions and embrace an approach of democracy to all, the cry to be understood can only be accompanied by understanding the other. In the past war was waged and Israel defended itself against great odds and still faces a continious threat, yet the refusal to sit at the negotiating tables without demanding preconditions at this time does nit seem to facilitate the atmosphere of sincerity and true peace.Israel must also make deep realalistic compromises to assure that the Palestinians will be able to have a viable existence, but only by resolving the crux of the conflict can this be done.With freedom comes a grave responsibility to uphold the princples of freedom to all that embrace it yet not impose cultural and religious beliefs upon others.There is a fine line between governing and a state of laws verus oppression and tyranny.Stop the negativity and be optimistic, be constructive via the working towards peace and not the dismissal of the opponent.

The outline is clear and the choice is that of the people, start to build trust.

5 votes

#7 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:40 PM EDT

Hippocrates of Cos

It's nice to see some real perspective on Bibi's speech. All I've seen is Israel's sycophants praising his every word. I didn't hear anything NEW or anything concrete. Bibi's got until September and I haven't seen a single move meant to rekindle Peace talks, not that they'd go anywhere with the Likud party in power

Likud's Platform as reported on Israel's own Government (Knesset) website

Settlements

The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

The Permanent Status

The permanent status arrangement shall be based on the following principles:

Self-Rule

The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.

The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs.

Jerusalem

Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel.

The Jordan River as a Permanent Border

The Jordan Valley and the territories that dominate it shall be under Israeli sovereignty. The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel. The Kingdom of Jordan is a desirable partner in the permanent status arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians in matters that will be agreed upon.

Security Areas

The government succeeded in significantly reducing the extent of territory that the Palestinians expected to receive in the interim arrangement. The government will insist that security areas essential to Israel's defense, including the western security area and the Jewish settlements, shall remain under Israeli rule.

Notice anything similar to his speech? The only thing missing there is Israel's demand to be recognized as a Jewish state and Congress applauding...

15 votes

#8 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:22 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks for the link and comment, Hippocrates of Cos. Yes, the speech was made out of the Likud's manifesto and it was read to the US congress by a PR person and the US congress applauded as if it was their own!

9 votes

#8.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:32 AM EDT

RAY FRIEDMAN

So I ask you, what is your proposal for peace and co existence for the betterment of the people?Are yoy wiliing to negotiate, compromise and what offers do you believe are the Palestinians willing and capabvle of doing in return for a better life? There must be a starting point, the ridgid posturing on both sides needs to bend , however without dialogue there will be no progress or even chance of progress.Stop pointing the finger and give me something concrete with the full earnestness of accomplishing a lasting peace for all. I await to hear from you and Son of Abrham.

1 vote

#8.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 AM EDT

Hippocrates of Cos

So I ask you, what is your proposal for peace and co existence for the betterment of the people?

Peace and Coexistence? Shouldn't the Zionists have thought about that before they entered Mandate Palestine with the intent to create a Jewish state over the ashes of Arab Communities. The only Peace left is surrounding and isolating Israel and forcing them to submission, A third Intifada for lack of a better term.

what offers do you believe are the Palestinians willing and capabvle of doing in return for a better life?

A better Life? Was this before or After Zionists laid claim to Palestinian land and used terrorism to steal it? Seeing as all the land known as Israel today was stolen from Palestinians, not too long ago, I beleive they have already given up plenty to the Jewish state.

There must be a starting point, the ridgid posturing on both sides needs to bend

A starting point? What for? Israel wouldn't even extend the settlement freeze last September while direct face-to-face talks were still taking place. With a partner like that there is no negotiating. A good starting point is for the Zionists to pack up there crap and return to their European or Russian homelands.

Stop pointing the finger and give me something concrete with the full earnestness of accomplishing a lasting peace for all.

A lasting peace with people who steal your land, displace and brutalize your people? Send the Zionists and Jewish settlers back to where they actually came from (Europe and Russia) and that will bring a lasting Peace. Seems people have this bizarre notion that Israel has the right to exist. Did the Christian Crusader state have this same right? Did the Muslims ever stop resisting the Crusaders?

9 votes

#8.3 - Wed May 25, 2011 10:28 AM EDT

RAY FRIEDMAN

I respect your view and disagree to your approach, any further attempt for you to see differently is futile at this juncture in time. I pray that one day you will further have tolerance and more love. Is it not better to share a loaf of bread than burn all the crops and only famine shall exist there after?

1 vote

#8.4 - Wed May 25, 2011 11:12 PM EDT

norsam

Good seed SOA

Israel's right wing militant zionists are taking the country to doom.

Check out also my latest seed - an analysis by

Lawrence Davidson
Department of History
West Chester University
West Chester, Pa 19383
USA

14 votes

#9 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:23 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks Norsam, will do. Here it is here (the link will open in a new window):

Israel's Right Wing Future – An Analysis by Dr. Lawrence Davidson

Zeev Sternhell is an Israeli historian and a recognized expert on Fascism. Sternhell's message is clear. He is very concerned about Israel's right wing government. He thinks the present regime is controlled by dangerous people such as Avigdor Lieberman (the present Foreign Minister) and a Knesset full of folks who believe that the Israeli "left"are traitors. The present rulers are also the patrons of Israel’s settler movement which Sternhell has always strongly opposed (his house was bombed by these fanatics back in 2008). In other words, as a expert on Fascism, he knows it when he sees it, and what he presently sees in Jerusalem at least has intimations of that sort of authoritarianism.

14 votes

#9.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 3:18 AM EDT

bigsaf

Perhaps it's time to recognize that the Palestinians need to go through the UN and other countries as their only option.

Even the stated US policy by Obama was a hard sell in itself as it still favoured Israel, as many critics noted, even if it was taken seriously, unlike the previous admins. But the way things went down finally in Congress...the US can't be seen as the honest broker, especially not after this.

The pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian rhetoric and bias is just so blatant now.

They were clapping against any notion of a 2 state solution, or Palestinian demand, essentially endorsing a ONE state Israel solution.

12 votes

#10 - Wed May 25, 2011 1:04 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

bigsaf,

Perhaps it's time to recognize that the Palestinians need to go through the UN and other countries as their only option.

Agree, but that is not their only option.

But the way things went down finally in Congress...the US can't be seen as the honest broker, especially not after this.

The US has not been the honest broker.

Report: Mitchell Resigned Because Dennis Ross Was Biased and Working Against US Interests

Remember that years ago Aaron David Miller said that Ross acted as "Israel's lawyer" at Camp David.

And:

The pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian rhetoric and bias is just so blatant now.

There is no need for Aaron David Miller to say it anymore; it was confirmed by the US Congress.

They were clapping against any notion of a 2 state solution, or Palestinian demand, essentially endorsing a ONE state Israel solution.

They were competing to see who would stand and clap first and get a pass card for the next elections, and some where eyeing the others to stand and clap with them.

And that ONE state solution will not necessarily be an Israeli solution. The united Palestinians and the International Community have their own solutions.

Thanks

12 votes

#10.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:57 AM EDT

trm2008

Does Israel want to work with the UN?

9 votes

#10.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:28 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Does Israel want to work with the UN?

That is good question, trm2008, thanks.

8 votes

#10.3 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:33 PM EDT

Side Winder V

Does Israel want to work with the UN?

If Israel wanted to work with the UN then it would have adhered to the United Nations rules and the International Law and the Geneva Conventions and have not brought its illegal squatters in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem. UN chief Ban Ki-Moon said that the plan to demolish Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem to make way for a tourist park is illegal and unhelpful.

Ban Ki-Moon Says Israeli Settlements Are An Obstacle To Peace

Secretary-General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-Moon, told a UN Committee that Israel has put up barriers to peace with its continued construction of settlements on Palestinian land. He called on Israel to adhere to its obligations under international law and signed agreements in order to move forward in a peace process that has been stalled for months.

Where is the Congress from the US obligations to uphold the United Nations principles and International Law?

10 votes

#10.4 - Wed May 25, 2011 1:34 PM EDT

joenathonDeleted

Hope-Springs

The world should throw Israel out of UN for violating the UN charter for so long and then declare Israel as an illegal entity.

Israel has been violating the UN charter since 1948. Whare is the consistency in the UN?

9 votes

#10.6 - Thu May 26, 2011 5:07 AM EDT

chitownty

This was as much about the Prime Minister refuting the President as anything else.The devil himself could have made that speech and those fools would still be clapping.ANYTHING by anyone going against the President is good enough for them.

11 votes

#11 - Wed May 25, 2011 1:33 AM EDT

dcstone01

That's about it...

It isn't like the stance Obama is taking is radically different, it's very similar, than the previous two admins...

8 votes

#11.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 3:25 AM EDT

MtMike-571674

WWIII - Here we come!

1 vote

#12 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:04 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

MtMike-571674,

WWIII - Here we come!

Why do you think so?

5 votes

#12.1 - Thu May 26, 2011 4:08 AM EDT

JAVE

Comment collapsed by the community

How honest could he be? He is Jewish after all.

The Jews and Muslims want peace with victory. When they cause as much pain as the Irish they will take a different course.

The Muslim nations will never accept the 1967 borders and the recongatiion of the 1940's nation. At the minimum, Obama gifting the Golan Heights to Syria does not serve the USA's interests. It's unreasonable to expect Israel to share a peace border with nations that literally state they wish to destroy them.

1967 borders? It seems weak of the American President to propose this if he didn't bother to get backing from at least a few of the Muslim nations that have to agree.

If israel agreed tomarrow to a deal where they pulled back, removed their settlements to 1967. The Muslims would never agree to recongise the 1940's borders that would obviously be accepted. No Muslim nation or people would ever accept the pre 1967 borders. The nation of the 1940's is considered illegitimate.

Other then locking our nation into a policy, Obama has done nothing to honestly advance peace in the region. At a tiny minimum he should of stated the '1967' border deal does not apply to Syria. He did not.

2 votes

#13 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:21 AM EDT

Hippocrates of Cos

It's unreasonable to expect Israel to share a peace border with nations that literally state they wish to destroy them.

Since Israel is propped up on stolen land, I think they have a good reason for wanting to destroy Israel.

At a tiny minimum he should of stated the '1967' border deal does not apply to Syria. He did not.

It is illegal to annex land, so the Golan Heights belongs to Syria and is the root cause of tension between Syria and Israel. Remember, Israel stole this land after they invaded it in a cowardly surprise at on June 9, a mere 4 hours after signing a Cease Fire. Israel even started the 1967 war by attacking Egypt first with Operation Focus.

10 votes

#13.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 10:42 AM EDT

JAVE

Comment collapsed by the community

Sally

How honest could he be? He is Jewish after all.

JAVE, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.

Don't make blanket insults about an entire religious group please.

13 votes

#13.3 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:47 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks Sally

3 votes

#13.4 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:02 PM EDT

JAVE

It was a bit of a wisearse and sarcastic comment reflecting common stereotypes. It seems silly that the same comments or worse would be acceptable if I placed 'Israeli' in front instead of the 'J' people. It tough to see much of a difference. I believe my comment was rather accurate reflection of many that disagree with what Netanyahu said.

Stereotypes exist, no sense pretending they don't. It's foolish to deny their influence and wish them out of existence. Most people know stereotypes don't apply to everyone. Still they must apply to few, some or many to have sticking power. Some old stereotypes are now regarded as silly and false. Why? Because people familiar with them found they don't apply to many that they know. When a stereotype dies it is because the exceptions are greater then the rule.

Yes I know my comments were a bit provocative. They were supposed to be. That seems what a number of people were basically saying in their previous comments. I figured someone might as well come out and say it. I guess that is why folk beat around the bush and use codewords.

I think the day long ban was a tad harsh and hypersensitive. But like Cool Hand Luke I did my time in the hole and accepted it.

#13.5 - Fri May 27, 2011 1:43 AM EDT

SgtNickAngel

Why Israel gets the support of Americans is beyond comprehension. Israel is a socialist country (universal health-care) that takes $4 Billion in U.S. tax dollars per year. Why are we sending precious U.S. tax dollars to a wealthy socialist country like Israel? Instead, let's use that money to rebuild those U.S. towns that have been ravaged by the recent spate of tornadoes.

10 votes

#14 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:33 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

SgtNickAngel,

Why Israel gets the support of Americans is beyond comprehension. Israel is a socialist country (universal health-care) that takes $4 Billion in U.S. tax dollars per year. Why are we sending precious U.S. tax dollars to a wealthy socialist country like Israel? Instead, let's use that money to rebuild those U.S. towns that have been ravaged by the recent spate of tornadoes.

Those are great points, but depending on how socialism is defined there are countries that provide universal health care without being socialist.

Thanks.

6 votes

#14.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 9:23 AM EDT

Side Winder V

Why Israel gets the support of Americans is beyond comprehension. Israel is a socialist country (universal health-care) that takes $4 Billion in U.S. tax dollars per year.

Yes, these are incentives funded by billions of American taxpayers' dollars or billions of tax exempt dollars to fund greed for land and warmer climate and low taxes and free living for the illegal squatters in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem while indigenous Palestinians languishing under occupation and house demolition and expulsion from their homeland and while there are millions of Americans languishing in poverty, unemployment and natural disasters.

10 votes

#14.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 3:30 PM EDT

Philip Grant

Here's the one thing that gets my goat. Anyone born in Israel can come to America, go through our process, and eventually become a U.S. citizen.

Now, I ask you, can anyone from America do the same in reverse? Just asking.

8 votes

#15 - Wed May 25, 2011 4:29 AM EDT

bigsaf

Now, I ask you, can anyone from America do the same in reverse? Just asking.

Yes, as there are Americans who migrated and have Israeli nationalities.

Israeli immigration is considered one of the main ethnic issues and obstacles to peace in the population war.

While Palestinians are expelled or refugees and expats are denied a Right of Return, the Israeli government allows for immigration of foreign residents, most notably Soviet migrants most of whom have an orthodox Jewish lineage link, but may not even be religiously Jewish nor have a historic link to the area. There has been a notable increase from English speaking countries, such as the US, South Africa. However, there are diverse groups such as Ethiopian and Indian migrants, however small. There is also the issue of foreign temporary workers, such as Thai farmers, who now fill the jobs of Palestinians ever since the barrier wall restricted them to Gaza, hence losing their livelihood.

This demographics engineering, besides occupation and annexation, is done to ensure a Jewish majority and dominance, as well as countering the local Arab Israeli population which has a better birth rate.

While it is Israel's own dogmatic mandate to bring Jewish citizens world wide to Israel (return to Zion), a good number of those citizens do not associate with that belief. Indeed, some of the best Human Rights and pro-Palestinian activists are not only non-Israeli Jews, but Israeli nationals themselves.

Rae Abileah, of Code Pink, who disrupted Netanyahu's speech briefly, is one such person.

7 votes

#15.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:21 PM EDT

Hope-Springs

Yes, as there are Americans who migrated and have Israeli nationalities.

But those Americans should be Jewish.

7 votes

#15.2 - Thu May 26, 2011 4:19 AM EDT

Terry Yoder

Americans will buy anything or certain Americans? A hard sell pitch is nothing new for Israel and most certainly not for Netanyahuey. I'm sure if anyone could put the squeeze on American government it would be his type with a reputation for squeezing copper out of pennies. Since this abrupt foreign nationalist comes over here ranting in English and touting so-called cultural affinity he's no doubt by now pretty used to getting whatever he wants without raising too much ire in the process at least where some sorry excuses for leaders and their protection of purely American interests have been concerned.

8 votes

#16 - Wed May 25, 2011 4:43 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks for thoughts, Terry Yoder.

8 votes

#16.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 PM EDT

Terry Yoder

Thank-you sir!

5 votes

#16.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:43 PM EDT

SgtNickAngel

What does socialist Israel do for America?

Why does the U.S. need socialist Israel as an ally?

The socialist Israeli government gladly takes four billion dollars per year in U.S. tax dollars, and then has the nerve to target the U.S. through espionage operations. It is time to cut all financial aid to Israel and let them fend for themselves.

9 votes

#17 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:05 AM EDT

dcstone01

. It is time to cut all financial aid to Israel and let them fend for themselves

You know...There are an awful LOT of quiet Americans that feel that same way...

And those representatives that stood and clapped?...They will be truly surprised one day with how much the American people are disgusted by their actions and support of Israel at all costs attitude....We are taking note of who did....

I hope that day will come soon when the quiet Americans start speaking LOUDLY...

10 votes

#17.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:02 PM EDT

Hope-Springs

I hope that day will come soon when the quiet Americans start speaking LOUDLY...

Quiet Americans will start speaking LOUDLY when they realize who are the exploiters and manipulators driving the US to unsanctioned wars against US interests and US security and US lives and decide that enough is enough.

7 votes

#17.2 - Thu May 26, 2011 4:30 AM EDT

ray.burchard

Israeli and Benjamin Netanyahu's intent is to create the same economic influence enjoyed by America, like trying to usurp the middle east regions accepted deity authority in favor of an ideological mentality of prosperity through capitalizing on commerce's materialism and unfettered consumption.

Or is it only the American's that believe all economic prosperity can only be generated by the over flow in allowing a select few principles to accumulate inordinate amounts of wealth, how convenient and self-serving for the select few of this "trickle down" theory. Any guess as to the identity of prosperities ruling, select few?

7 votes

#18 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:46 AM EDT

Side Winder V

To countermeasure this economic aggression there must be an intensified action to boycott Israeli products.

A consumer boycott of Israeli produce exerts direct economic pressure where it matters.

Why I'm boycotting Israeli produce

12 votes

#18.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 6:42 AM EDT

dcstone01

I already sold all my shares of stock in Israel companies...

8 votes

#18.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:04 PM EDT

Hippocrates of Cos

dcstone01 Israel companies

Industrial Espionage knows no limit... ;)

8 votes

#18.3 - Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 PM EDT

dcstone01

That's not funny, it's really close to the mark......in fact the biggest shares I had were in a 'VOIP' (Voice over the internet provider) company...that has gotten BIG contracts with 'governments' and other large business's around the world...

6 votes

#18.4 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:00 PM EDT

Terry Yoder

"trickle down"? "select few"? Vouchers too?

2 votes

#19 - Wed May 25, 2011 6:04 AM EDT

Hope-Springs

That was nothing but political theater of one man show that had been staged for the benefit of both audience and actor. The GOP right emphasized its edge over President Obama and Netanyahu gaining some points over his right in Avigdor Lieberman and Co.

8 votes

#20 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:55 AM EDT

Son of Abraham

That was good observation Hope-Springs, thanks.

9 votes

#20.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:59 AM EDT

joenathonDeleted

trm2008

Thank you for posting this article. It's nice to see a different viewpoint than the one fed to us by the corporate media.

9 votes

#22 - Wed May 25, 2011 12:13 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks trm2008. Definitely, some mainstream media are well known for altering news to serve particular agenda, depending on unverified sources, misinforming, distorting and even inverting the populace's ethics and morals, religious beliefs and ideological alignments. John Pilger made an excellent film about The War You Do Not See, which is a powerful documentary on how some mainstream media work with the government in manipulating the masses to support its policies and wars.

10 votes

#22.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 4:40 PM EDT

Hope-Springs

The War You Do Not See

The video was available on youtube, but not anymore. Anyone knows where it could be viewed?

5 votes

#22.2 - Thu May 26, 2011 4:37 AM EDT

Meloney

http://www.sprword.com/johnpilger.html

I haven't seen it yet. 1hr 35min

5 votes

#22.3 - Fri May 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT

Fada

Video in the link you posted is no longer available ''like many other links;;

Censorship is affirming the war we don't see

They can't erase everything , it's in parts here and here and here and here

9 votes

#22.4 - Fri May 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks for the link, Meloney, and John Pilger wrote on that site:

"The censorship is such on television in the U.S. that films like mine don't stand a chance."

Censorship in the USA! Looks like Cherry Picking Censorship.

"It is too easy for Western journalists to see humanity in terms of its usefulness to 'our' interests and to follow government agendas that ordain good and bad tyrants, worthy and unworthy victims and present 'our' policies as always benign when the opposite is usually true. It's the journalist's job, first of all, to look in the mirror of his own society." –John Pilger

Fada, those links do work, thanks.

5 votes

#22.5 - Fri May 27, 2011 3:59 PM EDT

Meloney

sorry the vid wasn't available at the link. Thanks to the 1st of Fada's links I got the front chunk of the documentary which provided sufficient incentive to find it as a coherent whole (here).

oh, yeah - very worthwhile, thoughtful and well produced. He certainly made a strong case for the reasons to remain skeptical of the official story.

Fada - it's so good to see you! What an interesting and heady time it must be in Egypt.

7 votes

#22.6 - Fri May 27, 2011 8:24 PM EDT

Fada

I don't know why the links work here and not in your place , it happened during Iraq war especially for the horrible clips of kids burnt by phosphorus in Fallujah , none could access it in the West . Of course the claimed reason was that the clips display cruel scenes though burning the kids is allowed and not cruel

7 votes

#22.7 - Fri May 27, 2011 8:55 PM EDT

Meloney

All of the links you provided worked for me. Two of them were to trailers on the film. The 1st and 3rd were actual chunks of the film.

I can't tell why it's been withheld from free viewing. It's subversive in undermining the official story so makes for many potential suspects who wouldn't want us to watch it but it's not obvious why it's been taken down.

7 votes

#22.8 - Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 PM EDT

Fada

Thanks Melony I just saw your post and link , it is really scary to be seen by the majority of people who most probably didn't want to know the truth because it turns their faith in fake wars upside down , being gulliable by the notion of liberation and democracy in Iraq is more relieving

In Egypt we were hit cruely by the fact that post-Revolution is the hardest time. True Revolution is a rare incident that must create big anarchy inside a widely established corrupt political and social system and I mean by 'true Revoluion' the whole masses uprise and make change not led by any carismatic leadership or tyrannic junta

Post-Revolution scene here is like when you hit a safe hornet of wasps with unexpected blow , they run everywhere trying to revenge back .

The rich remains of former regime and Mubarrak himself from his stash and Saudia are paying millions to 'organised gangs' to let them defeat Revolution by attacking civilians and burning Churchs and hospitals and prisons in complete absence of police ''police abandoned duty after his criminal role against protestors was revealed ''

Saudia is financing bigotic Islamists here and Kuwait is airing TV channel spreading lies and rumours about Revolution . They don't understand that No Go Back Egypt will defeat them all but it needs time

5 votes

#22.9 - Sat May 28, 2011 9:06 AM EDT

Meloney

wow - yes, these are times when the strength of the popular resolve will be the way to defeat the hornet aggressors.

Since we're on the topic of media here I'm wondering how Egypt's media is working? Is the resolve of the people fortified by your media? Are the people highly skeptical? Who is trusted and who is affirming the positive vision for Egypt's future?

On a side note - what is happening with the gas contracts assigned below market value to Israel and Jordan? Last I heard they were ordered to be reviewed.

I really enjoyed that Polger documentary. Today I'm thinking that if it weren't for the revolutions we've had in media (mostly by way of the internet) it wouldn't be possible to take a look at that duplicitous relationship there has been between corporate media and powerful governments.

6 votes

#22.10 - Sat May 28, 2011 12:00 PM EDT

Fada

This needs tens of replies Melony , the post-Revolution scene is too complicated in a big country like Egypt embracing all kinds of ideologies from Islam to communism . But debates over the best political process is running among all political leagues and meetings of Revolutionary coalition

For media , the subject of the topic, some may not believe that Egyptian media has become more trusted and free than media in US. A wide diversity of independent media is vigiling at Revolution and criticizing the intrim government and watching closely the democratic changes and new Constitution and new parties not to let anyone circumvent at Revolution. Military Counsil yeilds to demands of every Friday protests and demands of media

Some brave owner of new TV channel has specialzed in watching the ruling Military Counsil closely not to let them misuse the huge temporal power they hold . He is criticizing them for having no experience in political and civilian life and he is refusing their use of military courts even in urgent cases like in ' trying detained members of vandalizing gangs'

No one care to envisage who is the next president , he will stay for 4 years any way , but we all are concerned at things that will last long like the items of new Constitution and laws of new Parliament and parties before choosing any president , time is running off and we are for laws decreasing the power held by president not to plunge another potential dictator into office

7 votes

#22.11 - Sat May 28, 2011 1:46 PM EDT

Meloney

That's great that you have trusted public media. It sounds like they are functioning in Egypt much the same way that idealized journalism was supposed to work in the US - a means to distribute information and as a check and balance on power in the country.

Thanks for summarizing a complicated idea : ) and my best wishes are with you and all Egyptians as you struggle to remake your government.

8 votes

#22.12 - Sat May 28, 2011 4:18 PM EDT

Fada

Thanks Melony.

The great lesson we've learnt is that all World people are sincerely supporting free will and democracy for Revolting people while most of world governments are trying to push the course of change into its own interests and agenda through urging pressure or waving with finantial aid

and by spying at Egyptian society , Arrest of Irani spy

Jordanian Mossad agent caught in Cairo

8 votes

#22.13 - Sun May 29, 2011 11:19 AM EDT

Kid Charlemagne

Well Netanyahu told us in 2001 what he really thinks of us....

Woman: Wait a moment, but then the world will say: “How come you’re conquering again?”

Netanyahu: The world won’t say a thing. The world will say we’re defending.

Woman: Aren’t you afraid of the world, Bibi?

Netanyahu: Especially today, with America – I know what America is. America is something that can easily be moved; moved to the right … [direction].

Child: They say they’re for us, but, it’s like…

Netanyahu: They won’t get in our way. They won’t get in our way.

Netanyahu 2001

http://blog.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/07/26/america-is-easy-to-push-around/

7 votes

#23 - Wed May 25, 2011 2:23 PM EDT

joenathonDeleted

Son of Abraham

Thanks for the link, Kid Charlemagne. Yes, that Netanyahu's declaration was made in Ofra, an illegal Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank. There is a link to the video somewhere up in the first couple of threads.

6 votes

#23.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 4:46 PM EDT

Hope-Springs

Netanyahu: Especially today, with America – I know what America is. America is something that can easily be moved; moved to the right … [direction].

And members of the Congress new that direction and stood and clapped 25 times. They forgot the direction should have been towards the interests of the US.

7 votes

#23.3 - Thu May 26, 2011 4:46 AM EDT

Meloney

The fact that the Congress rose to its feet multiple times to applaud him says more about the ignorance of its members than the quality of their guest's speech.

ignorance

multiple standing ovations, including for ludicrous and absurd proclamations such as equating Hamas with Al Qaeda and claiming that Israel is "not a foreign occupier" in the West Bank:

Great American Patriots - Glenn Greenwald posted vid comparing Congressional reaction during the last 2 joint sessions

8 votes

#24 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:30 PM EDT

Side Winder V

Thank you for the link Meloney. That's really sad and disappointing.

What makes this more remarkable still is that this foreign leader whom they were cheering so boisterously and continuously just completed a public, ugly conflict with the American leader and has a long record of demonstrated indifference to American interests; yet the super-patriots of the American Right sided so brazenly and publicly with this foreign leader over their own country's President. Meanwhile, both political parties in Congress are in a frantic competition to see which one can lavish Netanyahu with more obsequious praise

That is more than ignorance!

Again as in #1.1, pity America with those "lawmakers".

7 votes

#24.1 - Wed May 25, 2011 5:57 PM EDT

bigsaf

Greenwald did a good job to point out the Democrats' reactions as well, which too was quite damning....

6 votes

#24.2 - Wed May 25, 2011 6:29 PM EDT

dcstone01

Is there a list made yet of all the reps that stood and clapped?...I would like to 'share' it and get the word out...maybe even contact mine if they are on it and let them know what I feel about this...

5 votes

#24.3 - Wed May 25, 2011 8:02 PM EDT

Son of Abraham

Thanks for the link, Meloney. That visually summarises the dire position in which some representative of the American people put themselves.

6 votes

#24.4 - Thu May 26, 2011 2:22 AM EDT

The Confessor

Thanks for the link Meloney. The reaction to Netanyahu's lies and damned lies from the U.S. Congress is one of the most shameful displays of kowtowing more akin to followers of a cult leader than elected representatives. I hope that the U.S. Taxpayers that voted them in office see them for what they are on this issue. Mindless, robotic and shameless cheerleaders who would rather believe in Netanyahu's blather than the reality that Israel is a brutal occupier that is engaging, even as they stood and cheered , in ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem and announced the building of another 1500 settlements. I have been watching old archive films showing the rise and fall of the Nazi's and the standing ovations given to Netanyahu are eerily reminiscent of that era.

8 votes

#24.5 - Thu May 26, 2011 5:41 AM EDT

Side Winder V

Absolutely, Netanyahu is separate from reality and his relations with the illegal squatters and extreme right is more important to him than the strategic interests of Israel.

And those members of the Congress who cheered and clapped for Netanyahu's self-confessions of violating International Law are separate from reality and their relations with the illegal squatters fund raisers and Israeli extreme right are more important to them than the strategic interests of America.

8 votes

#24.6 - Thu May 26, 2011 6:18 AM EDT

Side Winder V

Netanyahu said nothing about President Bill Clinton's assertion to Israel and the Palestinians in December 2000 that including 250,000 settlers to Israel and a viable Palestinian State is a thing and its opposite.

7 votes

#24.7 - Thu May 26, 2011 6:24 AM EDT

Meloney

Here's another vid of American ignorance on the Israel/Palestine issues. This one from Max Blumenthal outside of the AIPAC meeting:

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/05/feeling-the-ignorance-at-aipac-2011/

I interviewed several AIPAC delegates in the streets outside the conference. While few, if any, of them were able to demonstrate the slightest degree of sophistication in their understanding of the Israel-Palestine crisis, they had been briefed inside on how to respond to critics. No one I spoke to would concede that Israel occupied any part of Palestinian territory; none would concede that Israel had committed acts of indiscriminate violence or that it had transferred Palestinians by force; one interviewee could not distinguish Palestine from Pakistan. With considerable wealth and negligible knowledge — few had spent much time inside Israel — the delegates were easily melded by the cadre of neoconservative and Israeli “experts” appearing in AIPAC’s briefing sessions.

8 votes

#25 - Fri May 27, 2011 11:15 AM EDT

RAY FRIEDMAN

So much energy wasted in pointing fingers , accusations quotes on quotes some in context and others not.Both sides have corruption, both sides in varying degrees have some human rights violations and both sides have suffered the loss of innocent lives.Extremists will always exist on both sides and those that maintain a stance of intolerance, oppression, fundamentalism and the unwillingness to change will never be satisfied.Where do you stand, yes rigorous honesty can be brutal, is it peace one wants or means to achieve the destruction of the other?

Is it true peace one desires that should be applicable to all in a just manner or simply to pursue an agenda of oppression and not to recognize the rights of the other to live a reasonably happy and prosperous life.

The basic answer is simple and need not take up so much energy, the energy is in the work to make a true foundation of peace and a better way of life.

I realize that many here in this thread will respond with deaf ears to true change to allow harmony, I feel for them and hope that a day shall come that thier minds and hearts will see a different light. This statement pertains to all sides.

1 vote

SON OF ABRAHAM

Netanyahu's Speech to Congress Speech Shows America Will Buy Anything

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SON OF ABRAHAM

Netanyahu's Speech to Congress Speech Shows America Will Buy Anything

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